Homeland Security Secretary Markwayne Mullin is warning that efforts to dismantle federal immigration and law-enforcement agencies could create the kind of disorder that radical political movements need to fundamentally transform a country.
Speaking Tuesday at Breitbart News’s Border Security, Public Safety, and American Sovereignty Event in Washington, D.C., Mullin was asked about Democrats and activists who have called for abolishing or stripping authority from the Department of Homeland Security.
His answer was blunt.
“My theory behind that is the only way you can take a republic, a true democracy, a true republic like the United States — or any country — and turn it into a socialist, communist country, is you got to fabricate chaos,” Mullin said.
Mullin argued that DHS should not be controversial because its basic mission is protecting the country.
“We have the job of protecting the homeland. It should never be controversial,” he said.
He then laid out his theory of how political systems can be destabilized.
“If there’s not chaos, you got to create the chaos,” Mullin said, arguing that once a society becomes sufficiently disorderly, people begin looking for someone to restore stability — creating an opening for more radical political systems.
Mullin went further, connecting his argument to demographic change.
“If you were to AI the question to say how do you turn a red state blue, or how do you turn a country from a democracy to socialism, it’ll tell you 100% of the time you got to change the demographics,” he said.
Mullin's comments are his own political theory, rather than an established causal explanation for demographic or political change. But he used that theory to argue that immigration enforcement and domestic law enforcement are inseparable from national security.
He specifically pointed to the “Defund the Police” movement and the growing calls from some Democrats to abolish or strip authority from DHS agencies such as Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Customs and Border Protection.
“Who would ever think ‘Defund Police!’ would become the cause of abolishing Department of Homeland Security when our job is to protect the homeland?” Mullin asked.
The debate is not merely theoretical. Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL) has publicly called for eliminating ICE and CBP authorities, reflecting a broader push among some Democrats and immigration activists to significantly reduce federal immigration enforcement.
Mullin, meanwhile, emphasized that the Trump administration's position is not opposition to immigration itself.
“We’re not anti-immigration,” he said. “If you want to embrace what America is all about, we want you — but you’re going to follow our nation’s laws.”
That distinction is central to the administration's immigration argument: legal immigration remains welcome, while entry and residence outside the country's laws are subject to enforcement.
The administration has sharply changed border policy since President Donald Trump returned to office. CBP Commissioner Rodney Scott said at the same event that southern-border apprehensions have fallen dramatically, while DHS officials have emphasized enforcement rather than the previous administration's approach.
Mullin's broader message was that border security is not simply an immigration issue. In his view, it is part of the government's fundamental responsibility to maintain order, enforce laws passed by Congress, and protect the homeland.
That puts the current fight over DHS at the center of a much larger argument about what government is supposed to do: enforce the laws already on the books, or retreat from enforcement in the name of a different political vision.
For Mullin, the answer is straightforward. A government that cannot control its borders or maintain public order eventually loses the ability to protect the people it was created to serve.
